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Talk:World Serpent-Class Super Dreadnought
The moment the UNSCDF needs to cut their budget down to a more realistic size... Buh-Bai! Useful Dave 00:09, 24 February 2009 (UTC) What is that... o_o -- SPARTAN-002[The Hero] [The Team] [A New Chronicle] 00:18, 24 February 2009 (UTC) An extremely expensive waste of materials, research, design, manhours put into constructing it, weapons technology, shipyard space, funding and ultimately, lives. That things gonna get hit first with the hardest weaponry they can bring to bear while it's pulling its fat ass around to aim it's main weapon. Its bad design combined with flawed and outdated tactics. Useful Dave 00:24, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Perhaps critiquing isn't the answer. If you don't think it's good, then don't flame the article, give the author suggestions as to how you would make it better... I honestly think it's perfectly fine. The SPARTAN program was also a waste of materials too, but (just like this Dreadnought) it was rewarding. I think the article is fine the way it is... I mean it could be able to turn around within three seconds and blast a planet into rubble, but that's god-modding. He didn't do that and that's kind of what it seems like you want him to do. Yeah it isn't perfect, but no ship is. NO SHIP IS SUPPOSED TO BE PERFECT. So in the end, it's a well written, detailed article about a ship. ''Meat'' [[User talk:Meat and Taters|''Taters...]] 00:32, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Oh I almost forgot. Suggestions: from now on try to make your images in colors other than black. That image is really good but it's hard to see. You also might want to find a way to make it more manuverable. [[User:Meat and Taters|''Meat]] [[User talk:Meat and Taters|''Taters...]] 00:38, 24 February 2009 (UTC) In all honesty M&T, this ship could really not be of any use. You could probably build a frigate with the amount of money that one of this things MAC rounds would cost. These overly massive, hyper-powered ships would have little function against anything short of High Charity, and this ship would be most useful as a very expensive meat shield, drawing the fire of everyone in the system, allowing other ships a chance to return fire. To me, this thing is a turtle... either that, or a fecking battle station, not a dreadnaught. Keep it in one place, and bomb the heck out of anything coming at it. -- SPARTAN-002[The Hero] [The Team] [A New Chronicle] 00:42, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Just a first glance without reading it, it might look good... but a footprint doesn't look like a boot. Meat and Taters, this is a ship which ultimately, just sticks out as the biggest target the UNSC put into space. Think about it, this things not going to be able to hide in any way shape or form, that leaves it open to forms of attack pretty unpleasant to any space-goer. How about having an asteroid rammed into your ship? Yup, thats one of the things which could be done, sure you've got enough MACs to turn it into swiss cheese but unless this thing can turn on a penny coins it will get hit, hard. It isn't about the ship being perfect, its about it being able to fill a role without being a liability in itself. What does it matter that its a huge battle command guided missile monitor carrier if it needs an entire fleet to protect it from possible attacks? The funding that went into the ship could've been put into several smaller and more efficient ships rather than one goliath which costs more than a fleet. You compare this to the SPARTAN program, you're not looking at them closely enough are you? You just see 'HEAPS MONEY SPENT' and 'HOLY SNAP WE SET FIRE TO THE BANK OF LONDON', yet the SPARTAN program was designed to keep full scale rebellion and war from breaking out within the UNSC, this is a few battleships for what? 'Spearheading attack groups', 'Defending carriers'? If this is the battleship I'd hate to see the carriers. Carriers need screening, and that will not be provided by a single ship unless its big enough to hide a whole carrier battle group behind it's fat arse. Even then the 3D nature of space means they can simply move to a better firing position rather than wasting time shooting through a giant lump of metal. Screening can be provided more easily by multiple sets of sensors and weaponry dispersed around the carriers to detect and intercept threats before they can attack the carriers. This would simply be out-manuevered and have the carriers slaughtered around it's hide thanks to the fact the UNSC poured a fleets worth of resources into it rather than smaller, more effective vessels such as frigates, destroyers and cruisers. Even for spearheading attacks its just going to get shot to pieces by the fire of everything directed upon it, sure it serves a role but to use what I think may be a more familiar setting to you, look at Return of the Jedi, the combined fire of a fleet weakens the shields enough for a vital hit to be dealt, repeated hits may be needed but its the same effect. This just pours lives, money, materials and time into a vessel which can only be in one spot at a time, is only really useful for killing ultra-heavy warships and all the while needs support from a fleet of it's own so it isn't overnumbered and swarmed by the enemy. Sure you put on a sheep-load of point defence, but that won't work when you've got them dedicating as many small ships to killing this thing as you did material to build it. Don't put all your eggs in one, overgrown, slow as hell basket. Useful Dave 00:50, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Personally, I really like the ship. When you build a big ship, you don't plan to have maneuverability. You have point defences and something most of you aren't remembering: escorts. If you have one of these, put 4 Frigates and a Destroyer and you got a devastating battlegroup. Well Dave, that's a mouthfull. Look: this ship isn't built to zip around the competition. It's like a Hunter, slow and a bitch to bring down. Also, knowing how much this thing costs, the UNSC would give it tons of back-up to keep what threats could bring it down from happening. Even if this thing was all alone, combined with it's size and shielding capabilitys, it would take a lot of rounds to bring it down. The ship can fight back too. The Mass Driver can plow through anything and the turrets can keep smaller ships from getting in too close. As for the cost, I agree, perhaps you should make it so that the UNSC only made like one or two of these things. [[User:Meat and Taters|''Meat]] [[User talk:Meat and Taters|''Taters...]] 00:58, 24 February 2009 (UTC) :Then all you'd have to do is separate it from it's battle group, and send in smaller ships to take it out. -- SPARTAN-002[The Hero] [The Team] [A New Chronicle] 01:04, 24 February 2009 (UTC) Do you see people building 800mm cannons into ships these days? Nope. Why? Because you've got a main gun which requires you to turn the whole damn ship around (And thats what'll happen if you kids don't stop fightin') just to aim at the enemy, never mind the size of the ammunition, actually maintaining the weapon and so on. That Mass Driver isn't going to do any good when they're attacking from the most obvious angle - the BROADside - and it don't matter how many turrets there is on there. Its going to get hit, how about a shot from long range? Simply gather up a bunch of light ships and blast away - repeat on the other side - Now whats it going to do? Send its limited bodyguard off to fight those two threats? Or actually turn itself and leave its engines exposed to enemy fire? Either of those done, leaves it open for the heavies to go in and blast it to bitsies from above or below where it has the least weaponry. Useful Dave 01:11, 24 February 2009 (UTC) ok well i dont see how most of your points make sense yes it is oversized but what is the assault carrier and super carrier of the covenant? it is used to take out the enemys largest targets, yes it would be a primary target for the enemy but thats why it has the armour and shielding, yes it states the ship is vulnrable when over run but the plan is to not let it be overun it doesnt just go rocketing around space waiting to get ambushed it used to assault planets, large battle groups, heavy war ships and if it has to assault smaller capital ships it does so at extreme ranges and relies on its single ships and defence systems for its protection, thanks M&T and there are only two, its also dark for the real colour it would be like the pillar. it isnt a 800mm cannon by the way Mk.8 refers to the power level. and if you read it details how it engages different threats, or it will. thanks 'J!MMY8806' 01:25, 24 February 2009 (UTC) You people need to QUIET DOWN WE ALREADY KNOWN THE SHIP IS TOO BIG. That's why it has s little something called firepower. By 2891, our technology would be similar to the Covenant's in the 2550's. After 340 years, humanity can get pretty far. Look at us now, In 1667, we had no knowledge of a rifled barrel, nuclear weaponry, or Antarctica. A hundred years later, an entirely new government had emerged, and a few hundred more years later, we were able to level entire cities with the drop of a single bomb. Fifty years after that, two countries had enough power to exterminate humanity. Now, we have state of the art fighter jets that could destroy 100 ships created at the turn of the 20th century. Now look, if we built this Super Dreadnought in 2552, it would have extremely poor maneuverability. However, 340 years later, this thing would be a lot better than what we could put own during the Human-Covenant War. And with this thing, there's no such thing as a blindside. Just look at the picture, there's rear-facing turrets capable of leveling frigates pretty quickly. That eliminates the need for the ship to be agile. And if you say that forty fighters could take this thing out because its a large target, think again. This thing has over 200 fighters at its disposal, which in fact can beat forty. Just remember, this thing probably out ranges any frigate out there by 10-fold. That's why is a Dreadnought. So if this is considered a giant target, then it is a giant target with 20-35 feet of Titanium armor and a massive shield encompassing it, and if you shoot at this target, the bullseye opens up to reveal a super armory that can kill you ten times before you even get to the shooting range. :P --thanks J!MMY''8806 12:33, 24 February 2009 (UTC) ... 2891... we wouldn't even need ships. We'd just teleport from place to place. lol. -- SPARTAN-002[The Hero] [The Team] [A New Chronicle] 13:40, 24 February 2009 (UTC) I doubt that we'd actually keep the ship that long if it was of no good use in the first place... I liked it. You gave it strength, but you also gave it crushing weakness so that its not godmodded. Just a bit of punctuation errors, thats all I can find wrong with it :P Blade bane 09:15, 25 February 2009 (UTC)Blade bane Looks pretty good now. Godmodding what what are you on about now it clearly states it eeither carry's infantry or ammo, not both if it makes for a planetery invasion it carries hardly any ammo but a lot of troop, and the other way with space combat and who says anything about entering atmosphere, and plus what you on about with super dreadnoughts being your thing????J!MMY''8806 17:33, 2 March 2009 (UTC)